Discussion:
Crop vs Converter
(too old to reply)
android
2014-08-13 12:37:01 UTC
Permalink
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
--
teleportation kills
http://tinyurl.com/androidphotography
Savageduck
2014-08-13 13:07:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
The 24MP DX sensor on the D7100 @ $1,099 and with 6fps, and reasonable
low light performance probably gives you the best value these days.

I am not a great proponent of TCs. Add a Nikkor 70-300mm VRII to the
24MP D7100 and you will have plenty of crop room. Add the new Tamron
150-600mm VC and you have more reach than you could possibly need.

Hell! with my measly 12MP D300S + the 70-300mm I can still get shots like this:
https://db.tt/HrtYe2HG
--
Regards,

Savageduck
me
2014-08-17 17:56:55 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 06:07:40 -0700, Savageduck
Post by Savageduck
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
low light performance probably gives you the best value these days.
6fps only for jpg. Shooting raw you fill the buffer
after ~3shots and then you're stuck with how fast your
card is and it still is the crucial factor even with an
Extreme Pro 95MB/sec SD card.

Also feels like I went back in time to my D70 as most
of the controls are concerned.
Post by Savageduck
I am not a great proponent of TCs. Add a Nikkor 70-300mm VRII to the
24MP D7100 and you will have plenty of crop room. Add the new Tamron
150-600mm VC and you have more reach than you could possibly need.
One has to evaluate specific TC/lens pairs.I find the
TC-14EII behind a first gen 200-400mm f/4 VR to be
fine. Depends what type of birds you want to shoot as
to how much is enough reach.
Post by Savageduck
https://db.tt/HrtYe2HG
Now try something with about 1/10th or smaller of that
wingspan in flight.
Floyd L. Davidson
2014-08-17 19:26:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by me
On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 06:07:40 -0700, Savageduck
Post by Savageduck
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
low light performance probably gives you the best value these days.
6fps only for jpg. Shooting raw you fill the buffer
after ~3shots and then you're stuck with how fast your
card is and it still is the crucial factor even with an
Extreme Pro 95MB/sec SD card.
The User Manual says otherwise.

For 12-bit NEF and JPEG, 6 frames per second. It slows
to only 5 fps with 14-bit NEF.

The memory buffer is specified for 6 lossless compressed
14 bit NEF files and 7 lossless compressed 12 bit NEF
files.

It's pretty hard to argue with that for a 24 MP DX
sensor at that price.
Post by me
Also feels like I went back in time to my D70 as most
of the controls are concerned.
Yes, Nikon always has done a good job on controls.
Post by me
Post by Savageduck
I am not a great proponent of TCs. Add a Nikkor 70-300mm VRII to the
24MP D7100 and you will have plenty of crop room. Add the new Tamron
150-600mm VC and you have more reach than you could possibly need.
One has to evaluate specific TC/lens pairs.I find the
TC-14EII behind a first gen 200-400mm f/4 VR to be
fine. Depends what type of birds you want to shoot as
to how much is enough reach.
Post by Savageduck
https://db.tt/HrtYe2HG
Now try something with about 1/10th or smaller of that
wingspan in flight.
Well, of course that is a different problem. Still, a
D7100 will be about the best buy in a camera for that
too.
--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) ***@apaflo.com
Floyd L. Davidson
2014-08-13 13:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
Use of a 1.4x TC does make a FF lens out of one with only cropped frame
coverage.

Unfortunately, while that is pretty reasonable for longer lenses, it
isn't nearly as viable for shorter focal lengths.

Regardless of that, how many long focal length lenses are there that
don't cover a full frame sensor?
--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) ***@apaflo.com
android
2014-08-13 14:00:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
Use of a 1.4x TC does make a FF lens out of one with only cropped frame
coverage.
Unfortunately, while that is pretty reasonable for longer lenses, it
isn't nearly as viable for shorter focal lengths.
No, but alot crop people seem to crave that extra reach.
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Regardless of that, how many long focal length lenses are there that
don't cover a full frame sensor?
Don't know but SD would be able to keep he's reach. That aside: They
might have a circle of confusion thats covers FF but they are not
designed to take advantage of that. I E be sharp in the corners of a
fullframe sensor. If they are: Then it's luck!
--
teleportation kills
http://tinyurl.com/androidphotography
Savageduck
2014-08-13 14:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by android
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
Use of a 1.4x TC does make a FF lens out of one with only cropped frame
coverage.
Unfortunately, while that is pretty reasonable for longer lenses, it
isn't nearly as viable for shorter focal lengths.
No, but alot crop people seem to crave that extra reach.
The crop folks already have that reach, by going DX they have an
effective x1.5. In this group it seems to be a few FF folks (one I can
think of) who want that extra reach by compromising with a TC.
Post by android
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Regardless of that, how many long focal length lenses are there that
don't cover a full frame sensor?
Don't know but SD would be able to keep he's reach. That aside: They
might have a circle of confusion thats covers FF but they are not
designed to take advantage of that. I E be sharp in the corners of a
fullframe sensor. If they are: Then it's luck!
That would be using a DX lens on a FF body, not a FF lens on a DX body.
--
Regards,

Savageduck
android
2014-08-13 14:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Savageduck
Post by android
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
Use of a 1.4x TC does make a FF lens out of one with only cropped frame
coverage.
Unfortunately, while that is pretty reasonable for longer lenses, it
isn't nearly as viable for shorter focal lengths.
No, but alot crop people seem to crave that extra reach.
The crop folks already have that reach, by going DX they have an
effective x1.5. In this group it seems to be a few FF folks (one I can
think of) who want that extra reach by compromising with a TC.
The TC would reproduce the effect of a crop sensor on a FF camera.
Hence: Crop vs Converter
Post by Savageduck
Post by android
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Regardless of that, how many long focal length lenses are there that
don't cover a full frame sensor?
Don't know but SD would be able to keep he's reach. That aside: They
might have a circle of confusion thats covers FF but they are not
designed to take advantage of that. I E be sharp in the corners of a
fullframe sensor. If they are: Then it's luck!
That would be using a DX lens on a FF body, not a FF lens on a DX body.
Yes, and that was the prerequisite.
--
teleportation kills
http://tinyurl.com/androidphotography
John McWilliams
2014-09-16 04:45:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Savageduck
Post by android
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
Use of a 1.4x TC does make a FF lens out of one with only cropped frame
coverage.
Unfortunately, while that is pretty reasonable for longer lenses, it
isn't nearly as viable for shorter focal lengths.
No, but alot crop people seem to crave that extra reach.
The crop folks already have that reach, by going DX they have an
effective x1.5. In this group it seems to be a few FF folks (one I can
think of) who want that extra reach by compromising with a TC.
Here's another way. FF camera takes FF 24-105. Crop camera takes 1.4x
converter and telephoto zoom.
Savageduck
2014-09-16 05:35:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McWilliams
Post by Savageduck
Post by android
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
Use of a 1.4x TC does make a FF lens out of one with only cropped frame
coverage.
Unfortunately, while that is pretty reasonable for longer lenses, it
isn't nearly as viable for shorter focal lengths.
No, but alot crop people seem to crave that extra reach.
The crop folks already have that reach, by going DX they have an
effective x1.5. In this group it seems to be a few FF folks (one I can
think of) who want that extra reach by compromising with a TC.
Here's another way. FF camera takes FF 24-105. Crop camera takes 1.4x
converter and telephoto zoom.
Why would the DX user want to add a 1.4TC to a FF 24-105 which without
a convertor is already an effective 36-157 on that DX without any
intervening glass elements?

The typical lenses in my bag are a Tokina DX 11-16mm f/2.8, an 18-200mm
VRII, a 70-300mm VR, & a 35mm f/2.0. Mostly I will just go with the
18-200mm VRII and leave the others with the bag in the car.
--
Regards,

Savageduck
John McWilliams
2014-09-18 01:32:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McWilliams
Post by Savageduck
Post by android
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
Use of a 1.4x TC does make a FF lens out of one with only cropped frame
coverage.
Unfortunately, while that is pretty reasonable for longer lenses, it
isn't nearly as viable for shorter focal lengths.
No, but alot crop people seem to crave that extra reach.
The crop folks already have that reach, by going DX they have an
effective x1.5. In this group it seems to be a few FF folks (one I can
think of) who want that extra reach by compromising with a TC.
Here's another way. FF camera takes FF 24-105. Crop camera takes 1.4x
converter and telephoto zoom.
Why would the DX user want to add a 1.4TC to a FF 24-105 which without a
convertor is already an effective 36-157 on that DX without any
intervening glass elements?
I have no idea.
The typical lenses in my bag are a Tokina DX 11-16mm f/2.8, an 18-200mm
VRII, a 70-300mm VR, & a 35mm f/2.0. Mostly I will just go with the
18-200mm VRII and leave the others with the bag in the car.
I was just stating what has worked well for me for the past five years.
android
2014-09-16 06:16:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McWilliams
Post by Savageduck
Post by android
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
Use of a 1.4x TC does make a FF lens out of one with only cropped frame
coverage.
Unfortunately, while that is pretty reasonable for longer lenses, it
isn't nearly as viable for shorter focal lengths.
No, but alot crop people seem to crave that extra reach.
The crop folks already have that reach, by going DX they have an
effective x1.5. In this group it seems to be a few FF folks (one I can
think of) who want that extra reach by compromising with a TC.
Here's another way. FF camera takes FF 24-105. Crop camera takes 1.4x
converter and telephoto zoom.
The idea was to smoooth the transition for diehard half frame fanatics
to full frame. ;-) Crop lenses with a TC behind on a full frame them
provides a near half frame experience.
And now that we know that D400 spells D750... ;-p
--
teleportation kills
http://tinyurl.com/androidphotography
Savageduck
2014-09-16 06:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by android
Post by John McWilliams
Post by Savageduck
Post by android
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
Use of a 1.4x TC does make a FF lens out of one with only cropped frame
coverage.
Unfortunately, while that is pretty reasonable for longer lenses, it
isn't nearly as viable for shorter focal lengths.
No, but alot crop people seem to crave that extra reach.
The crop folks already have that reach, by going DX they have an
effective x1.5. In this group it seems to be a few FF folks (one I can
think of) who want that extra reach by compromising with a TC.
Here's another way. FF camera takes FF 24-105. Crop camera takes 1.4x
converter and telephoto zoom.
The idea was to smoooth the transition for diehard half frame fanatics
to full frame. ;-) Crop lenses with a TC behind on a full frame them
provides a near half frame experience.
And now that we know that D400 spells D750... ;-p
Sigh! This is getting old already.
--
Regards,

Savageduck
Neil Ellwood
2014-09-16 09:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by John McWilliams
Post by Savageduck
Post by android
Post by Floyd L. Davidson
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe
glass? A crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera
gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate
for that. I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are
interested in that!
Use of a 1.4x TC does make a FF lens out of one with only
cropped frame coverage.
Unfortunately, while that is pretty reasonable for longer
lenses, it isn't nearly as viable for shorter focal lengths.
No, but alot crop people seem to crave that extra reach.
The crop folks already have that reach, by going DX they have an
effective x1.5. In this group it seems to be a few FF folks (one
I can think of) who want that extra reach by compromising with a
TC.
Here's another way. FF camera takes FF 24-105. Crop camera takes
1.4x converter and telephoto zoom.
If the crop camera used the same lens it wouldn't need the
converter.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
R. Mark Clayton
2014-08-13 14:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
If the converter I have is anything to go by, don't waste your money.

It's not aftermarket either.
Post by android
--
teleportation kills
http://tinyurl.com/androidphotography
android
2014-08-13 14:03:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by R. Mark Clayton
Post by android
What's the best make do if you cant afford proper fullframe glass? A
crop camera or a 1.4 teleconverter. The crop camera gives more speed but
a fullframe sensor should give you less noise to compensate for that.
I think that a lot people deep into telephoto are interested in that!
If the converter I have is anything to go by, don't waste your money.
It's not aftermarket either.
Good to know... :-)
--
teleportation kills
http://tinyurl.com/androidphotography
Loading...